There’s a belief that the dynamics surrounding an event determine, in part, its success or its failure. Clearly, this has been the case with the making of Deepa Mehta’s elemental trilogy Water.

The original time, location and cast seemed to hinder fruition, and as all of these were altered from the initial to final cut, so was the fate of the movie being made. Having entered this year’s Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF) with a bang, Water made history as the first and only non-English language movie ever to open TIFF in the thirty years that it has been promoting movies.

Aptly named, Water is a multi-dimensional movie that intricately sews a simple love story into a social and political centric drama. This is, in my opinion, one of the most exquisitely made, elaborately laced, deliberately understated yet powerfully elocuted stories of human plight, struggle and victory. I’m sure that it will have the same social and personal impact that Mother India and Titanic had in their day.

I was enamoured by the sheer delicacy with which Mehta presented the injustice that widows are still subjected to in some parts of India. Because of “tradition”, such women are fated to life as social outcasts, and their status in society dictates a life of penance in the hope of cleansing their sins. But is it they that require cleansing or the blind followers of tradition who inflict such harsh punishment on them for living?

In conversation with two of the movie’s principle actors, Lisa Ray and John Abraham, I asked them what it is like to be part of such a landmark film.

Read On…

How did the two of you become the principle actors in the movie?

L: It came about really simply. Deepa just sent me the script and asked me to take a look at the role of Kalyani and the ball just started rolling from there.

J: Deepa was told about me. She was told to come and meet me. Deepa said “Who is he, a typical Bollywood hero?” (laughs) And then she met me and fortunately for me, we clicked, and that’s how I landed the role of Narayan.

Why did you say “yes” to doing this movie?

L: Why not! This is my second movie with Deepa (Bollywood/Hollywood), and it’s a privilege to work with her in any event, let alone twice. I would be pleased to work with Deepa on any number of projects.

Why is that?

L: She’s a great director.

How about you John? When Deepa approached you, what was it that made you take on a movie so far removed from what you were used to doing in Bollywood?

It was, hands down, the fact that it was a Deepa Mehta movie. That’s what drew me to the movie in the first place. That’s what led me to read the script, which I loved. I said yes to doing the movie because Deepa Mehta is such a prestigious filmmaker, and I felt that doing a movie with her would teach me another dynamic of the filmmaking process that until then, I had not been privy to. It wasn’t until I was on set did I realize that I had made one of the best decisions, as I discovered that Deepa is an actor’s director.

Having both come from a modeling background before making acting your vocation, did you feel up for the challenge of doing justice to the roles Deepa had chosen you for? Let’s not ignore the fact that these are probably the most challenging roles of your careers.

L: I’m an actor, and now I’m a trained actor. For me, I cannot go into a project if I feel that I may not at least be able to give it a good shot and by that, I mean a convincing shot. Doing this movie was no more challenging than any other movie I have done because as an actor and an individual, you evolve (hopefully) and what once you may have seen as a challenge, once experienced, is no longer the same challenge.

J: The difference between this movie and most of the movies I have done is simply that this is more global. In terms of being challenging, well my first movie, Jism was probably my most challenging because it was my first. What I can tell you though is that what separates Deepa from most of the directors I have worked with is, as I mentioned before, that she is an actor’s director. She takes care of you, and she is concerned about the actor’s needs. Having done Indian films in Bollywood, sometimes the unit becomes insensitive to the actor’s needs. Barring Mr. Mahesh Bhatt who I worked with first, I don’t think that any director really goes deep into that aspect of really taking care of the actor’s needs. But to answer your question, Water was a very challenging role, since up to this point I had played that typical hero role that required a certain attitude that Narayan did not possess; I had to change, for example, even my gait in the way I walked.

What is this vibe that you both have eluded to that existed on set?

L: I can’t. There are some things that you can’t put into words because they are a feeling; an energy force that words would compromise.

J: An overwhelming feeling of rightness.

As Water is the final chapter in Deepa’s trilogy and that it is clearly close to her heart, not to mention the fact that she has had to face more obstacles making this movie than any other, how did you feel about the sheer level of responsibility that was placed on you to deliver the goods?

L: I did feel a tremendous level of responsibility. I was extremely flattered and humbled that Deepa entrusted me with this role in a movie that is truly, as you put it, close to her heart. The sheer fact that she believed in me gave me a tremendous sense of responsibility to bring her vision to the screen as faithfully and as sincerely as I could. I put myself completely in Deepa’s hands to help her fulfill her vision.

J: I saw Fire and also Earth a couple of times. Fabulous movies. So when Deepa offered me the movie, I thought to myself that I’ve really got to live up to her expectations. The pressure to deliver was there but when we see Deepa today and how happy she is, we realize that we must have lived up to her expectations, so we have fulfilled our commitment to her.

Do you feel you did justice to your characters and Deepa’s vision of them?

L: As John has pointed out, I only have Deepa’s reaction to go by. As an actor, when you see the finished product, you always feel satisfied on some level. Knowing Deepa as I do and knowing the fact that she is feeling so fulfilled is a great reward in itself. But if we were successful on a general level is for other people to say and not for us to say.

J: Well, Deepa says so, but I don’t know. Deepa says that I have done more than justice to my character.

Lisa, this being your first really serious acting role, how did you prepare for the challenge of playing this role?

[For] every role that I have taken on, I have put in 100 percent. Every role has had its learning curve. Kasoor, my first movie, was challenging for me at the time as it was in Hindi, which I’m not fluent in. [With] each movie I have done I have grown as an actor. Water was definitely a culmination of a lot of things for me. I was in drama school simultaneously when I was shooting for Water and doing this film allowed me to put to test a lot of the theories that I had been learning and honing. In terms of preparation, I underwent really extensive preparation on my own through researching the ideology behind the plight of my character, but what really worked for me was that once on set, Deepa guides you but she doesn’t enforce. That’s her strength. In terms of specific preparation, I did my due diligence by, as I said, research on the plight of the widows, as well as taking a workshop and visiting Vrindavana. (Pause) Given the chance, I’d do it all over again.

I heard that the experience was a life changing one for you Lisa. In what ways?

There were many things that were working on two different levels. It was professionally and creatively one of the most satisfying experiences of my life. The most beautiful thing that can happen is when you can grow as a performer and as a human being. And I really feel that because the intentions behind this film were pure and heartfelt, it was the vision behind this film that affected me so profoundly. I was moved both as a performer and as a person on a very real level. Also, the chemistry on the set was so extraordinary, as everyone understood the seriousness of the subject matter and that each role was so crucial to the understanding of the movie’s message in general. It was, as John said, one of those strange situations where everyone and everything just came together. We were all instrumental to the making of this movie and we all knew it. On a personal level, it consolidated my conscious decision to move away from Bombay and the Bollywood formula and do the kind of cinema that I want to do.

Which is?

Real.

Why?

Because in that [Bollywood] atmosphere, once you have become well known, you can kind of ride off that popularity for many years without challenging yourself. You know, that mindset that if it worked once, why not stick to that particular formula. That is changing with the increase in the variety of films that are being made and appreciated now, as well as the fact that some actors in Bombay are looking for more substance to challenge their creative arm. Hopefully this trend will continue, as Indian filmgoers are appreciating the diversification of cinema that is now being offered to them.

So you’re searching for a different kind of reward, other than money and popularity?

I’m not necessarily searching for anything. I want to live my life very organically, and I find that when you put the right energy into the right things, the right people and the right projects find you. That’s how I believe in living my life. So doing Water was like a vindication in being true to myself. Seeing somebody like Deepa who was so bloody determined, who struggled so much to make this film against all the odds and to see her fulfill her creative dream has been so incredibly inspiring and a great life lesson.

How does it make you feel that you have been instrumental, along with others, in helping Deepa realize the fruition of this dream?

L: I don’t think of myself that way. I can’t. It’s impossible. As far as I’m concerned, Water was like a dream and like most dreams, I still sort of cling at little wisps of it. I see myself as one little part of the whole that has made Water what it is.

J: No one person was instrumental. From the technicians to the production staff to the actors and director, everyone’s input has made the movie what it is: a cinematic masterpiece.

John, having come from the Bollywood school of acting, I was quite surprised to see you play a character that required you to follow the ‘less is more’ theory. What did you do differently in preparation for this role than what you do to prepare for the Bollywood formula role?

I had more actor-director interaction and the whole cast worked seamlessly as one unit. This is not as common in Bollywood movies where scenes are done as separate entities and actors are brought in and out as required. There isn’t so much working as a unit or feeding off of each other’s energy. Consequently, remaining in character was a lot more consistent. I didn’t have to connect, disconnect and reconnect which is quite common in the Bollywood process.

Did you encounter any difficulties making the transition?

Deepa made the impossible possible, so the least I could do is try and emulate the same.

You have mentioned that you had to step away from the ideology of filmmaking that you were accustomed to in Bollywood when creating the character of Narayan. With what mind set did you create Narayan?

I didn’t have a lot of time to prepare due to the many commitments I had ongoing at the same time, so it was very much a hands-on development of the character. What really helped was that Deepa was very clear on who Narayan was and as a result, she was very instrumental in my understanding of how to create him onscreen. Also, I try to be as honest to the role as possible and honesty always shows, as audiences today are very discerning. Throughout the making of the movie, since I was also doing a motorbike movie, I was consistently in and out, ten days at one shoot and ten days at the other. That was a challenge because I had to be in character on both sets, but both characters and styles of filmmaking were very different from each other, but I think I pulled it off. (Pause). I do want to say, however, that the success of this film lies centrally in the honesty with which it was made and acted. I remember seeing Lisa’s bedroom walls covered with research material that she would delve into to ensure that she did justice to her character. Then there was Seema Biswas, who is one of the most powerful actors I have ever worked with. Little Sarala, who didn’t even speak a word of Hindi, learned her lines phonetically. I think many little drops make an ocean…or Water should I say.

John, you said that you chose to do Water because of the director and unique subject matter, and that the filmmaking process itself was very different from what you had experienced so far. Has doing this film had an impact on the type of role/movies you are now choosing to do?

I’ve always chosen scripts and roles that I’m comfortable with, and Water fell into my scheme of things. The difference is what Deepa just told me yesterday. She said, “John, you have no idea what this film is going to do for you.” That’s exactly right because I don’t know what this film is going to do for me. The way in which this movie is going to make a difference in my life in a big way is that it is probably going to help me get more work outside of the country (India). I’ve always consciously chosen all of my roles based on each being different from the one before, and this is what I intend on continuing to do. You have to pick a role for the right reasons and then every role you play becomes the right role

In what way(s), if any, has being a part of this movie affected your life John?

It was a very different experience of filmmaking in general for me. Mostly, now having come to Toronto for the film festival, I realize that I have never been in a movie before that was so global and which will be watched by so many different people in so many countries.

How does that make you feel, knowing that so many non-Indians are going to be introduced to you as an actor?

An audience is an audience at the end of the day. It feels good that the appeal of the movie is going to be global and not only Indians are going to be watching it. All audiences, irrespective of cultural biases, enjoy a good movie and this is a great movie. Movie appreciation is not culturally defined; take, for example, the response to Life Is Beautiful which is an Italian movie or Paran which is an Iranian movie. It’s all about whether a movie has something to say that is universal, as all of these movies, including Water, do.

What was your favorite scene in the movie?

L: Because I was living this role for four months, it’s very hard to pinpoint that one scene when the entire movie for me was so organic and so real.

J: I have many favorites, but my most dynamic scene in the movie was when the song Pir Parahi comes on at the end of the movie and Seema Biswas is running with Sarala in her arms at the train station. She is fighting through a crowd to get to me as I am in the doorway of the train, looking out when I catch sight of them. I found this particular scene so intense because when I took Sarala from Seema, the expression on Sarala’s face, to me, told the whole story of struggle for emancipation – how some do and some unfortunately don’t, reach that end.

Which scene in the movie did you find the hardest to perform?

L: I don’t know about difficult but I can tell you that the most annoying thing for me was the dog in the movie, Kaalu. You know how they say never work with children? Well, I say never work with animals. Sarala was great. It was that damn puppy that we had so much trouble with!

Well, what a great performance you put on because you looked like you were in love with that dog.

I hated that dog

And you John, any similar experiences?

J: The logistics of when I had to recite the Sanskrit lines was the most difficult for me. Picture this: I’m trying to get the lines right and be serious, and all I can see is Lisa looking down at me amused at my retakes. We couldn’t stop cracking up.

Without giving out too much of the story and ruining it for those who have not yet seen the movie, the scene of you, Lisa, towards the end of the movie when you walk into the River Ganges is quite poignant as it is open to debate whether the decision Kalyani makes at this point leads to her liberation or evokes failure. (Sorry folks, you’re going to have to see the movie to know what I’m talking about. Then come back and read this Q&A again).

L: I only walked into the water because Deepa told me to. (Laughs). Seriously though, you’re making a good point, and it is truly something that I believe is very important about the character of Kalyani. This is what gives her an added dimension, because the audience is introduced to a very passive, non-confronting woman at the beginning of the movie, but by the end, you see in some ways, an assertive, decisive woman who takes responsibility for her life by making the decision she did at that point. In fact, I think that that is something a lot of people today cannot do. Of course it’s questionable whether she gave up or had a sense of liberation for finally making a decision for her life rather than allowing society to make it for her. That’s open for debate, and I’m sure will be discussed for years to come.

John, there is a point in the movie which some are saying downplayed your character. Specifically, when you found out what your father had done and how Kalyani, the woman you loved, was involved, the audience is left wondering what transpired between you and her at the point of realization. (Again folks, you’re going to have to see the movie to understand this question).

I think Deepa made a conscious effort to avoid melodrama here because the realization in itself is not the point of the movie. What transpires afterwards is.

Lisa, did you really cut off all your hair for this role?

Yeah, look at it! Look at this ridiculous haircut. I went for a buzz cut which was actually quite freeing.

Now that the movie is done, are you happy with your performances?

L: You have to be or else you can’t move on as an actor. Consistent deliberation of what you could or should have done can be creatively crippling.

J: I haven’t seen the movie yet, but since Deepa is happy, I’m happy.

In hindsight and just for the purposes of this interview, would you have done anything differently if you had the chance to play your characters again?

L: As John said, since Deepa is pleased, I as an actor have done my job, so my answer is no.

J: It’s the director’s vision and if you fulfill that, then you shouldn’t beat yourself up over what you could or should have done or not done.

L: Frankly, I don’t know how actors walk around with such egos because they are simply a tool for the director to communicate their message.

L: So far.

J: One of them.

The central theme of the movie is of course the element of ‘water’. In your understanding, what is the message that Deepa is relaying to her audience specific to ‘water’?

L: I think cinema is there to be enjoyed. I loath analyzing films that way. I don’t think it’s my place, it’s Deepa’s to provide an explanation on the symbolic use of ‘water’. Frankly, I think that’s the job of film critics. Also, when [a movie] has universal appeal, I feel that I’ve done my small part in contributing to that process.

But you cannot get away from the deliberate use of ‘water’ as a central theme/symbol of the movie, just as you can’t with Fire and Earth. I understand that the movie is there to be enjoyed and has a universal message, but you or anyone else for that matter, cannot ignore that there is a serious, underlying point the movie is making.What I would like to know is, in your understanding having been a part of the process, what is that point?

As an actor, I’m reluctant to talk about the movie in those terms. As I said, I think that’s the job of the director, critics and the audience.

Care to shed light on the theme of ‘water’ as you understand it John?

I think ‘water’ is the central character in the film. It’s where all the major scenes of the movie take place and unfold.

The movie was genius in my opinion, in how it developed and intertwined the roles of the three principle female roles of Shakuntula (Seema Biswas), Kalyani (Lisa), and Chuyia (Sarala). The first is a woman who felt that there was no way left for her but to accept her plight; the second who tried to get out and it is debatable if she actually did; And a third who did receive emancipation.Watching the past, present and future all at the same time was like watching the evolution of a tradition. In today’s world, we decide on what is right and what is wrong based, in part, on the right to decide how we want to live and the choice to make that decision for ourselves. Do you agree that this is one of the fundamental messages of the movie?

L: Interesting insight. You know, what’s genius about this film is that people will project and see what they want to see because it works on so many different levels. I spoke to a journalist recently and he told me that out of the six or seven people that he watched the movie with, one person thought that it was a love story, another person thought it was a social film, another thought it was a political film and another thought it was a character study. This is why when you asked me what I think the movie is about, I’m reluctant to say. It’s simply a film about life, and life is multi-layered. This is cinema for all to watch and take out of it what is important to you on an individual basis.

J: I do believe that freedom of choice is one of the fundamental messages of the movie, but for me, what’s genius about the movie is the way in which this message is relayed to the audience. That’s the genius of Deepa Mehta.

And this brings back the point that you made earlier John, that it is irrelevant what language the movie’s in or what the subject matter is. The relevance is in whether a movie can speak to people irrespective of cultural, social, political and gender specific biases. In short, it’s universal appeal.

L: And that’s the magic and power of cinema.

J: I second that.

What’s your opinion of the reality that in some parts of India widows are still treated in this manner?

L: These are very deep-rooted prejudices in parts of Indian society, but on a larger scale, it’s very indicative of how people are repressed and abused and manipulated in the name of a great force, whether it’s politics or religion. That’s what makes Water so universal because although it’s about a very specific social ill, you can apply it to any other social ill and thus relate to it on your own individual level.

How do you feel this movie will have an effect on the plight of these women, if at all?

L: I do sincerely believe [it will have an effect] because cinema is such a powerful medium. As soon as you present something through such a medium, people automatically become aware, so I certainly forsee that in the very least, people will become aware.

J: Unless this movie is distributed very aggressively in India, I don’t think it’s going to make any difference to be very honest. And I think that it’s the power of media that will determine the impact of the movie on the plight of these women. With due respect, just take a look at what media did with the devastating effects of Katrina. It has accomplished so much in terms of awareness, which has translated into aid for its victims. Then compare this to the millions of people who die in India and Africa everyday and nothing is publicized, so nothing is done to help the victims’ families. The media is not as powerful in India as it is in the west, so the chance of these women benefitting from the making of this movie is slim.

As a woman Lisa, what do you think will be the impact of this movie on women who watch it?

In the most part, I think women, even those of South Asian descent, will be deeply shocked at the notion that such a belief is still in practice. Today’s India, in the most part, is very forward thinking and progressive in its perspective of women as people in their own right, and not as an extension of men. So yes, women of the world, regardless of their cultural biases or geographical locale, will be affected to the core of their being.

And similarly John, as a man, what do you think will be the impact of this movie on the male audiences?

I don’t believe that pain and suffering is specific to gender. If you have even a bit of humanity in you, suffering of any living thing on any level will affect you, as Lisa said, to the core of that which within you is decent, and I refuse to believe that there isn’t some decency in everyone.

L: I choose to believe so.

J: It’s already happening on so many levels. Women, in their own right, work alongside men and are an integral part of the political scene.

Now that Water is complete and ready to hit the cinema circuit, what else do you guys have

coming down the pipeline in terms of movies?

J: Cabul Express which I’m shooting in Afganistan. My next release is a real fun movie called Garam Masala with Paresh Rawal and Akshay Kumar. It’s a comedy and audiences will have a riot watching it.

L: QuarterLife Crisis which was shot in NY and it’s about the dating scene in NY.

That’s the one with my friend Russell Peters (comedian) right?

Yeah. There’s also a Canadian film called Seeking Fear where I play a cop.

Lisa, now that you’ve completed your actor’s training and are clearly focusing on a career in the West, what do you think about Aishwarya’s non-kissing clause in Hollywood considering you don’t have a similar hang up?

L: I can’t imagine having these very strange clauses, it’s completely irrelevant to me. (Pause). But she seems to be doing very well for herself and she has the right to work within her comfort zone.

J: She’s never done a kissing scene in movies before. Why is it that just because it’s Hollywood that she’s supposed to kiss? I don’t understand that. What makes Hollywood so much more superior that a person who has a certain stand I life and in their career would have to prostitute their belief in order to be considered a good actor?

Then let me ask you this? How many leading ladies in Hollywood do you know of who have platformed to, and sustained A-List stature, without performing that one expectation when playing a romantic lead? I understand drawing the line at nudity because I don’t feel any role really necessitates that to make its point. I believe, as do many, touching lips is far less obtrusive than rolling around the grass or on a bed which most Bollywood actresses have no problem doing.

J: She probably just isn’t comfortable with it and is with the other forms of contact. I personally don’t have such hang ups, so I don’t know what the big deal is myself.

I’m sure your female fans would be pleased to hear that John, and now that we’re on the topic, it’s clear from the women you’ve dated in the past (Raveena, Bipasha), you love beautiful women. Care to tell us what’s going on the woman front?

I’m dating an actress now, but the unfortunate part is that we don’t get to spend that much time together because of our schedules. And that’s all I want to say on this.

So you’re committed, no chance for anyone else?

I’m global now (laughs).

How about you Lisa, do our male readers have a chance or are you spoken for?

Let’s put it this way: a little bit of mystery goes a long way.

And finally, what do you think is the perception of Bollywood outside of India?

L: I feel that it’s not really understood, as the films are seen as caricatures by Western audiences. The sensibilities of Indian filmgoers is very different from Western audiences, therefore the aesthetics are completely different.

J: First of all, the Indian film industry should not be called Bollywood. I think that’s a very subservient word.

Subservient to what?

Hollywood. We make far more movies than them and have a much larger audience, so why is it that our industry, as the word ‘Bollywood’ suggests, is considered an offshoot of Hollywood?

How do you think Western audiences could be educated to understand the Bollywood formula or the dynamics of Indian films in general?

L: That it’s a very strong and legitimate cinematic force in its own right. It has entertained billions of people for decades, so give credit where credit is due.

J: I think that with the kind of movies that we now have coming out of India, like Water, the movies will speak for themselves.

First Published in Fall 2005 Issue. www.AnokhiMagazine.com.